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Author Topic: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC  (Read 11816 times)

Offline spoco

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2011, 09:03:09 AM »
problema nga talaga kapag di nasisira sis  :D :D :D
problema nga talaga kapag di nasisira sis  :D :D :D

i eto pala ang issue sa ampli nato. mahirap masira ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2011, 09:03:09 AM »

Offline Roland

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2011, 11:10:23 AM »
di ko po naintindihan kung anong oscillation po ba ang tinutukoy, oscillation ba sa circuit ng amp?
Sa VAS stage ng amp mostly merong ceramic cap na nakakabit from base to collector ng transistor, it is there to protect the circuit from oscillation. One cause of oscillation is merong AM radio na naka-on near the amp.

I dont know if yong microphone kapag naka-on ay makakacause ng oscillation sa amp circuit.
Baka di ko lang naintindihan, ang oscillation ba na tinutukoy mo sis is yong tinatawag na "feed back" ng mic?
Kung ito nga, kung nagfefeedback ang mic mostly it will start from lower frequency which is still under sa specification ng amplifier, i mean some amplifiers can able to amplify the 50 khz signal without worry of oscillation. Kaya ngalang habang tuloy tuloy ang feedback pataas ng pataas ang frequncy nito maririnig natin na patining ng patining ang tunog hanggang sa masakit na sa taenga, when the frequency level reached beyond the limit of amplifier it will surely oscillate fried chicken will result.

Maybe ito ang ibig sabihin tita lagruppen
In every action there's always an opposite and equal reaction.

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2011, 11:10:23 AM »

Offline labgruppen

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2011, 12:01:59 PM »
^oscillation talaga ang tinutukoy ko..  ;D  kung yung amp ay hindi stable, yung transient sa pag-on ng mic ay pwedeng mag-initiate ng oscillations.  very long unbalanced mic cables can cause a system to go into oscillation.  kasi yung unbalanced mic cables mababa noise rejection nya unlike balanced mic cables. and those noise can trigger oscillations.  likewise faulty/loose connectors. pag nag-oscillate yung system, hindi mo maririnig yung oscillations pero maririnig mo ang effect nito sa music/voice na lumalabas sa sound system mo.  these are just what i experienced anyway, and i don't know if it is applicable on the case of sir 2010 insider.

yes, may mga compensation caps sa vas stage ng amps, pero minsan sa mga DIY diagrams, binababaan nila ng husto yung value kung i-cocompare mo sa original na diagram.  case in point would be the spec-2 clone in the other thread.  andaming parts na magcocontribute sa stability ang tinanggal sa clone kung i-cocompare sa original diagram.  in other cases din, binababaan nila yung value ng cap na nakaparallel sa feedback resistor to extend the hi-frequency response.

i may be wrong though, and i am not an expert on amp design.

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2011, 12:01:59 PM »

Offline labgruppen

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2011, 12:23:06 PM »
btw, i forgot to mention, these oscillations may be local on the amp (within the amp) or systemic(throughout the signal chain). kung systemic yung yung oscillation, kahit stable pa yung amp, may oscillation pa rin. not caused by the amp itself but by the whole system.

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2011, 12:23:06 PM »

Offline tony

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2011, 12:47:18 PM »
Quote
Sa VAS stage ng amp mostly merong ceramic cap na nakakabit from base to collector ng transistor, it is there to protect the circuit from oscillation.

"miller compensation" cap ang tawag dito, it sets the high frequency response of the amp, the cap is being charged by the output current of the input LTP, this miller cap is made higher than the internal base-collector capacitance since this cap varies with collector current so that it contributes to distortion by having a frequency response that varies all over the place....

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2011, 12:47:18 PM »

Offline spoco

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2011, 12:51:48 PM »
OT: ok talaga ang elab. dami matu tutunan.. ;D ;D

Offline tony

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2011, 12:52:17 PM »
amps when driven hard or is fed with transients like mic having feedback or some cables breaking at some point tend to misbehave...

some amps are able to recover quickly, but still some oscillate first, these oscillations can either be of the audible type if form of distortions or the sound become very harsh to the ear, or in the rf region, you can only look at them with the oscilloscopes...another symptom of this is some unexplained heating up of the amplifiers....

just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it does not happen...

that is why preventing your amps from clipping is a step in the right direction and a good practice...

Offline NORTH LUZON

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2011, 12:56:38 PM »
makitambay
ang sarap ng topic
ung SMG pala na tinutukoy ko ay ok pa til now at nabenta ko sa isang skul dito sa province namin at working well pa naman! ang problema nga lang ay ubos na ung 4 crown driver units nila.
KUNG MAY PROBLEMA KA SA AKIN WAG MO IDAAN SA SALITA LANG. SET KA NG ARAW AT KITA TAYO

Offline Johannah Aleksandria

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2011, 01:11:34 PM »
amps when driven hard or is fed with transients like mic having feedback or some cables breaking at some point tend to misbehave...

some amps are able to recover quickly, but still some oscillate first, these oscillations can either be of the audible type if form of distortions or the sound become very harsh to the ear, or in the rf region, you can only look at them with the oscilloscopes...another symptom of this is some unexplained heating up of the amplifiers....

just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it does not happen...

that is why preventing your amps from clipping is a step in the right direction and a good practice...

Ano nga ba tlaga sir ang best way to monitor clipping in real time?
Generations come and generations go, but the world stays just the same. What has happened before will happen again.

Offline tony

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2011, 01:15:26 PM »
most amps have led power indicators, use them, siguruhin na hindi sumasagad yung output level...

maraming circuit na pang monitor ng clipping....one exapmle...http://sound.westhost.com/project23.htm

Offline Johannah Aleksandria

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2011, 01:23:15 PM »
most amps have led power indicators, use them, siguruhin na hindi sumasagad yung output level...

maraming circuit na pang monitor ng clipping....one exapmle...http://sound.westhost.com/project23.htm

+1 po sir.
Generations come and generations go, but the world stays just the same. What has happened before will happen again.

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #91 on: June 13, 2011, 01:47:25 PM »
^yup, lamp nga yun at protection nga sa tweeter. sonic guard ang tawag ng peavey sa ganung protection scheme.




thanks pwede pala itong palitan ng ordinary bulb

forgot to comment on this.  those 5w/10w resistors most probably form a PAD or attenuator to match the sensitivities of the mid and hi drivers to that of the woofer. tweeters may have sensitivities at around 110dB@1w@1m while woofers  maybe at around 98dB@1w@1m. without an attenuator on the tweeters, the sound would be "top" heavy, kaya nag-iinsert sila ng attenuator to match the equivalent sensitivity of the tweeter to that of the woofer.

kaya pala may switch din ito para pwede e bypass yong resistor. thanks again.
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Offline Roland

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #92 on: June 13, 2011, 02:33:40 PM »
^oscillation talaga ang tinutukoy ko..  ;D  kung yung amp ay hindi stable, yung transient sa pag-on ng mic ay pwedeng mag-initiate ng oscillations.  very long unbalanced mic cables can cause a system to go into oscillation.  kasi yung unbalanced mic cables mababa noise rejection nya unlike balanced mic cables. and those noise can trigger oscillations.  likewise faulty/loose connectors. pag nag-oscillate yung system, hindi mo maririnig yung oscillations pero maririnig mo ang effect nito sa music/voice na lumalabas sa sound system mo.  these are just what i experienced anyway, and i don't know if it is applicable on the case of sir 2010 insider.

yes, may mga compensation caps sa vas stage ng amps, pero minsan sa mga DIY diagrams, binababaan nila ng husto yung value kung i-cocompare mo sa original na diagram.  case in point would be the spec-2 clone in the other thread.  andaming parts na magcocontribute sa stability ang tinanggal sa clone kung i-cocompare sa original diagram.  in other cases din, binababaan nila yung value ng cap na nakaparallel sa feedback resistor to extend the hi-frequency response.

i may be wrong though, and i am not an expert on amp design.
korak sir, sa mga diy mangayyari ang oscillation kase hindi sinsasama ang mga caps  na maliliit sa pagkabit kase tumutunog at ok pa rin naman kahit wala ang mga yon. Perro kung alam mo ang purpose nun siguradong ikakakabit yon.

I have 1 experience with very old sansui amplifier na pinarepair sa shop ko, flustrated na ang technician ko kase nagnormal na ang mga boltahe sa mga test point kaso ang output untiunting umiinit. Mga pinalitan na transistors ay iba na ang number sa original dahil di namin mahanap sa tindahan yong ganong number. Nung pinasa na sakin at inimbistigahan ko ang circuit design napansin kong walang caps sa VAS. nung nilagyan ko ng 100pf ayon nagnormal. So naiisip ko na ang rason bakit nagkaganun ay dahil sa mga pinalit naming transistors baka fake yong iba kaya nagoscillate sya.

Thx nga pala kay sir tony sa knayang expluination about miller cap
In every action there's always an opposite and equal reaction.

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #93 on: June 13, 2011, 02:36:21 PM »
wala ako masabi, madaming matututunan ako dito,, im very happy

+1 to all

Offline danny

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2011, 12:48:05 AM »
korak sir, sa mga diy mangayyari ang oscillation kase hindi sinsasama ang mga caps  na maliliit sa pagkabit kase tumutunog at ok pa rin naman kahit wala ang mga yon. Perro kung alam mo ang purpose nun siguradong ikakakabit yon.

I have 1 experience with very old sansui amplifier na pinarepair sa shop ko, flustrated na ang technician ko kase nagnormal na ang mga boltahe sa mga test point kaso ang output untiunting umiinit. Mga pinalitan na transistors ay iba na ang number sa original dahil di namin mahanap sa tindahan yong ganong number. Nung pinasa na sakin at inimbistigahan ko ang circuit design napansin kong walang caps sa VAS. nung nilagyan ko ng 100pf ayon nagnormal. So naiisip ko na ang rason bakit nagkaganun ay dahil sa mga pinalit naming transistors baka fake yong iba kaya nagoscillate sya.

Thx nga pala kay sir tony sa knayang expluination about miller cap

yes, tama ito. meron mga amps na walang caps sa VAS
ok lang ito, pero of course depende sa design.
meron din amp na talgang dapat may caps.
we have lots of amplifier on the market na walang caps sa vas
still works no issue, been using the design for 12 yrs na
but if you will replace VAS stage you need to use the exact part

nadale mo sis roland  :)
danny

Offline eirol_99

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #95 on: June 20, 2011, 07:52:08 PM »
oscillation occurs in mic-mixer system at most in an audio system, and unbalanced mic cables/cheap pl-55 connectors + cheap disco mixer mic pre amps are the usual culprits. you may not be hearing any sound but the VU meter is at full swing already, feed that to a good amp and surely it will fry your speakers and i'm talking from experience. ;D even experienced having passive crossovers puffing with black smoke, hehehe

ngayon mejo maganda na ang gamit, with balanced mic cables/ decent mixers, oscillations rarely occur, saka kita mo na sa mixer sa channel signal LED if may noise or signal na kahit di mo pa tinataas ang fader ng mixer, kaya ma check mo na if oscillation or anything.

Offline archer291

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2011, 08:04:43 PM »
pasend n rin po sa email q.. benedictoarwin@yahoo.com     thanks po   70wats lang meron aq

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #97 on: June 28, 2011, 10:11:54 PM »
pasend n rin po sa email q.. benedictoarwin@yahoo.com     thanks po   70wats lang meron aq
meron ka 70 WATTS?
post mo naman schem dito :)

Offline archer291

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2011, 10:45:27 AM »
ok yan gamitin ampli na smg.. \subok q n yn ng dati ngmobile aq npakatibay nyan,,kahit yung heatsink sobrang init n deretso p din ang tunog nyan,, d k ipapahiya ng ampli n yan..my diagram nyan aq 70 70 watts lng pandrive sa sp n 300wtts

Offline archer291

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2011, 10:52:35 AM »
bgo lang aq d2 eh,, d q alam pnu mglagay ng pict o diagram para mpost q,,balak q nga ibenta yung isang ampli q d2 n smg, 2 kc to ng dati ng mobile aq pang reserba yung isa. :)

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Re: SMG 300 WATTS SCHEMATIC
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2011, 10:52:35 AM »

 

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