Low cost PCB Fab services for the hobbyist

[yanaonline]

May mga low cost pcb fab didto sa pinas na kaya sa budget nang hobbyist?

[yanaonline]

Baka malito kayo sa PCB fab. What I mean is somebody do the pcb etching services dito po sa pinas. Up to 2-layer lang.

[OPTIMUS PRIME]

Check mo Si Boss Dandy may Fab yun...search mo lang dito sa forum at PM mo cya

[yanaonline]

Thanks Boss Chris!

[OPTIMUS PRIME]

NO probs sis...calling Boss Dandy

[franzschluter]

Antay lang end of MAY. Meron ako parating na makina pang PCB. Wala pa ako pricing naiisip kase magsisimula palang me mag run ng ganitong business. Pero ung target ko is for hobbyists and students lang. Meaning low production..

[paranz]

^

go ahead sir, im sure marami ang interested na magpagawa ng pcb sa iyu. Kasali na ako

[macky]

Antay lang end of MAY. Meron ako parating na makina pang PCB. Wala pa ako pricing naiisip kase magsisimula palang me mag run ng ganitong business. Pero ung target ko is for hobbyists and students lang. Meaning low production..

yan ang pinakahihintay ng lahat! update mo kagad kami dito sa elab sir.
low production@ low price!

[franzschluter]

yan ang pinakahihintay ng lahat! update mo kagad kami dito sa elab sir.
low production@ low price!

Hehehe Wala pa. Pero I'll announce or inform you guys once I can start production. And in addition I also invested in importing F4 boards since alexan and deco do not provide F4 boards. They only have the 1mm thick PCB that is ung color brown which is made out of Hard Paper I think. RS-Philippines has but unfortunately is a bit costly. Does anybody know where to buy ung F4 board? It's slight grenish in color and is about 1.6mm thick and really solid.

[rdpzycho]

FR4 sir? 'yung mga double sided (presensitized) ng Alexan is FR4, glass reinforced epoxy. hindi ko lang alam kung 'yung standard na double sided nila is FR4 rin.

'yung brown na PCB, FR2 ang designation sir. at tama sir, Paper Phenolic nga siya.

kindly inform us sir kung kaya niyo ring gumawa ng plated through holes.

thanks.

[danny]

fr4 ang gamit namin sa mga highend naming power amp at preamps
may kamahalan talga itong mga ito.
 

[rdpzycho]

basta multiple layer sir, FR4 na talaga. sa single sided lang talaga nagagamit 'yung FR2, tapos madali pang mabasag.

[franzschluter]

Yup FR4. The hard one 1.6mm thickness. Nung pumunta ako Alexan nakikita ko sa glass display nila ung color brown (Raon branch, the one near carriedo). Then they had some in a green foil plastic bag. Ung pang photo UV nila. When I was in college (Mapua). We used those boards din but I assumed that those where phenolic boards din. But perhaps they have changed it or maybe I confused myself (It happens).

Now in deco they have this stand there na puro brown PCB boards (FR2 right?) ung pang display nila. So I assumed they don't have FR4 to begin with.

What I was looking for is un nga FR4 na walang photo, just plain copper on top. I got some imported from a German Supplier (TOPTRONIC) in Germany which have the ffg specs:

- 70microns copper thickness in contrast to the one I saw locally which is roughly 30microns. Meaning it is possible to put more juice in the conductors.
- 1.6mm (copper+fiberglass) para matibay. The local ones I tried before the plantsa method in the older days. But usually ung ibabaw na copper clad nag bubulge if heated for too long.
- 160mmx450mm (Bigger one would have been better para isang setup lang sa makina to make multiples of the same board if required)
- Double Sided
- Euro 3,20 = roughly 200php (Expensive due to its size. It's the biggest I found available locally in Germany)

I also bought a variety of PCB sizes (single,double,small and medium sized). They sell them pero kilo at Euro 5,49 roughly PHP 340. That's roughly 10 pieces.


I think I got it cheaper since it is being shipped together with the machine nakatipid sa shipping cost. But if they do have it at a cheaper and more affordable price in alexan than in europe then this is good news.  

Designator markings. I might just simply try use laser for this (Single side only) or an ink pen on my plotter (If required).

For through hole platting maraming paraan.
-Solder it with a wire
-Rivets (I have seen some in china but not have considered it yet kase manu manu ata ito)

I would like to avoid electro platting as much as possible. I have tried before chrome platting before at home, somewhat successful but all that I comment is that it is very messy and not good to the environment. The same goes with the etchants and the sorts for soldermasking. It will be hard to obtain a proper business license to manufacture PCB through etching methods as this is bad for mother earth.

[rdpzycho]

Yup FR4. The hard one 1.6mm thickness. Nung pumunta ako Alexan nakikita ko sa glass display nila ung color brown (Raon branch, the one near carriedo). Then they had some in a green foil plastic bag. Ung pang photo UV nila. When I was in college (Mapua). We used those boards din but I assumed that those where phenolic boards din. But perhaps they have changed it or maybe I confused myself (It happens).

'yung double sided lang ang FR4, single sided is still Paper Phenolic. 'di ko pa lang nasubukan kung 'yung double sided nila na hindi for photo etching is FR4 din.

For through hole platting maraming paraan.
-Solder it with a wire
-Rivets (I have seen some in china but not have considered it yet kase manu manu ata ito)

been using through soldered wire method for some hobby circuits. but I am also looking for plated through hole prototyping here. pagdating kasi sa RF malaki difference nung soldered wire na through hole sa plated through hole. medyo matrabaho rin for gridded ground vias (around 50 to 100 vias to ground).

actually, University of San Carlos offers PTH for dual layer PCB. ang main concern ko lang dati with them is lead time. minsan rush kasi 'yung prototype. kaya ngayon dumidiretso na kaagad kami sa PCB Fab sa China, medyo magastos lang sa prototyping stage dahil may engineering charge lagi kapag bago ang gerber.

[franzschluter]

I will look and research further more into PTH. But avoid the acids for now. But I do have experience doing electroplating but am not fascinated by the mess and waste it produces. The same goes for developer solutions and etchants. If price is no issue I could buy some special chemicals for this that are not so harmful but expensive. I believe there is some paste that can do the trick together with a vacuum table. And I happen to have a vacuum pump at home 

Or perhaps something can be done such as building a head for automated riveting. But this would probably depend on the demand.

As for lead time.. I think it would depend more on how busy or not busy the intended business would be. But before I purchased the machine they demonstrated how some boards are milled and it took no more than 10minutes for a single sided board with holes. So if there is nothing much to do in the shop. Boards could be fabricated within the day.

I also do know what you mean with having noise in the system as I have done some prototypes regarding RF also. It gets specially critical in the Ghz region. Not so long ago I ordered my PCB from China also (PCBCART). The same problem as yours, I have problems with shipping fee and the insanely high prices + "setup fee". I also encountered problems with customs every now and then as they just seem to love smacking taxes on my shipments.

[danny]

pag dating sa taxes, wala kang kawala talaga diyan sa pinas.
they will twist your arms. nag kaka problem din ako diyan. 

[yanaonline]

@danny: you're correct. Maraming red tape sa custom pati maliit na parts pinag tripan.
@franzschluter: What PCB finish sa fr4 mo? ( ImAg, ENIG, OSP etc)

[rdpzycho]

eto nga pala 'yung sa University of San Carlos.

gusto ko ipromote yung PCB prototyping sa USC cebu kac dati po akong OJT sa PCB Lab of our school.. Maganda talaga ang natapos nila na PC boards.... estudyante(OJT) pa ang gumagawa nyan....  kung gusto nyo mag inquire or magpa fabricate... contact this person.. He is the Laboratory Head

Van B. Patiluna
Director, PCB Prototyping Laboratory
Department of Computer Engineering
University of San Carlos-Technological Center
Talamban, Cebu City, Philippines 6000
Tel: (32) 344-3801 local 600
vanzmailbox@yahoo.com

[NanotecH]

- 70microns copper thickness in contrast to the one I saw locally which is roughly 30microns. Meaning it is possible to put more juice in the conductors.
- 1.6mm (copper+fiberglass) para matibay. The local ones I tried before the plantsa method in the older days. But usually ung ibabaw na copper clad nag bubulge if heated for too long.
- 160mmx450mm (Bigger one would have been better para isang setup lang sa makina to make multiples of the same board if required)
- Double Sided
- Euro 3,20 = roughly 200php (Expensive due to its size. It's the biggest I found available locally in Germany)

I also bought a variety of PCB sizes (single,double,small and medium sized). They sell them pero kilo at Euro 5,49 roughly PHP 340. That's roughly 10 pieces.

mura na siguro yan kesa dun sa supplier ko dati sa US:

1/16" DS 360 in² FR4 @ $13
1/32" DS 360 in² FR4 @ $12
0.017" DS 360 in² FR4 @ $11

[danny]

@danny: you're correct. Maraming red tape sa custom pati maliit na parts pinag tripan.
@franzschluter: What PCB finish sa fr4 mo? ( ImAg, ENIG, OSP etc)

yes, ulti mo sample
minsan may charge pa

dito sa us walang ganyan
minsan nga kung may bayaran napaka mura pa

grabe na diyan sa pinas, iba ang takbo ng gobyerno tsk tsk