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Author Topic: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter  (Read 3806 times)

Offline sandman

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60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« on: February 04, 2008, 06:23:12 PM »
I need a help from you guys about changing the output of the wall outlet power from 220VAC/60Hz to 110VAC/400Hz. Converting it to 110V is easy but Im having trouble converting its frequency to 400Hz. Any ideas what simple component to add? Thanks in advance.
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60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« on: February 04, 2008, 06:23:12 PM »

Offline Shey

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 07:44:14 PM »
it's not a simple job.. kailangan mong gumawa ng high power sinewave generator na nakakabit sa step down transformer. Take note na ang ordinary silicone steel EI core is designed to work at 60 Hz, i'm not sure kung may reduction in efficieny yan if you try to run it at 400 Hz.
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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 07:44:14 PM »

Offline sandman

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 08:08:49 PM »
And whats worse is that if it works, I need to make the whole thing portable, meaning from battery to 110AC/400hz. Is such thing possible?
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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 08:08:49 PM »

Offline Shey

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 08:21:24 PM »
kung mataas ang wattage mo at linear power supply and design, mahirap maging portable yan.. Pero kung switching type using PWM to generate sinewaves, pwedeng pwede maging portable but the technical complexity of a homemade switching supply is quite high.
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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 08:21:24 PM »

Offline Ganda692002

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 08:31:01 PM »
Siguro pede mo convert yung AC(stepdown mo na din) to DC(rectifiers) then use a Microcontroller to drive a PWM signal to a set of IGBT transistors to create or mimic a sinewave.. never tried this one.. suggestion lang hehehe
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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 08:31:01 PM »

Offline Shey

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2008, 08:37:21 PM »
yan din ang idea ko.. parang UPS and block diagram mo..
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Offline gerisonic

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2008, 01:13:12 AM »
Quote from: Electron on February 04, 2008, 07:44:14 PM
it's not a simple job.. kailangan mong gumawa ng high power sinewave generator na nakakabit sa step down transformer. Take note na ang ordinary silicone steel EI core is designed to work at 60 Hz, i'm not sure kung may reduction in efficieny yan if you try to run it at 400 Hz.

Ordinary silicon steel EI core will still work at 400Hz. Take note ordinary EI cored transformers are being used in old power amplifiers output transformers and this operates on the entire audio range from 20Hz to 20khz.
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Offline gerisonic

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2008, 01:21:44 AM »
Quote from: sandman on February 04, 2008, 06:23:12 PM
I need a help from you guys about changing the output of the wall outlet power from 220VAC/60Hz to 110VAC/400Hz. Converting it to 110V is easy but Im having trouble converting its frequency to 400Hz. Any ideas what simple component to add? Thanks in advance.

If its not needed to be purely sine wave. You may rectify the 110VAC to DC and use a MOSFET in bridge configuration switching both pair of the MOSFET bridge alternately at 400Hz to produce AC.
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Offline Born2BeWired

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2008, 10:04:11 AM »
Looks like we got a member who is into avionics. Mukhang marami kang gadgets na pang eroplano ah?

I will go along with the idea of electron ang egnome692002. The easiest path may be to hack a UPS to tweak its frequency to get your 400Hz source. All the electronics hardware are already in there.

I hope you are not working on some weapon guidance system and thinking of blowing something up ;D
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Offline Ikasamoko

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2008, 03:12:03 PM »
teka sir..para san ba yun? anu pag gagamitan mo?
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Offline sandman

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2008, 08:14:34 PM »
Quote from: Born2BeWired on February 05, 2008, 10:04:11 AM
Looks like we got a member who is into avionics. Mukhang marami kang gadgets na pang eroplano ah?

I will go along with the idea of electron ang egnome692002. The easiest path may be to hack a UPS to tweak its frequency to get your 400Hz source. All the electronics hardware are already in there.

I hope you are not working on some weapon guidance system and thinking of blowing something up ;D

No bro. I have something more sinister in mind (joke).
Yeah its kinda intiriguing why I need that thing to be portable .. ;)

So how do I change nga the output of a UPS from 60Hz to 400Hz? I cant think of anything inside a UPS to tweak on to change the output frequency.
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Offline Shey

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2008, 08:16:33 PM »
@ Born2BeWired

ganyan din ang unang reaction at iniisip ko ng mabasa ko ang thread na ito.. heheheh..
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Offline Born2BeWired

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 10:15:14 PM »
Quote from: sandman on February 05, 2008, 08:14:34 PM
So how do I change nga the output of a UPS from 60Hz to 400Hz? I cant think of anything inside a UPS to tweak on to change the output frequency.

I never hacked a UPS before. I am hoping somebody who does will help us here, maybe some member working in APC. Nevertheless, I could speculate. So take the following with the proverbial grain of salt:

1. Get a schematic. This part could be the toughest to tackle.
2. Locate the PWM generator section, and find the reference sine wave signal.
3. Change this signal to 400Hz. You may have to build your own 400Hz sine reference.

Watch out for the following scenario:
- The system controller may detect this change as a fault and may refuse to start PWM generation. You might need to add a circuit to fool the microcontroller into thinking everything is OK.
- Changing the frequency may also call for a modification in the feedback loop to keep the system stable.
- Things may turn out to be more complicated if the feedback loop passes though the microcontroller.

Get us a schematic so that we can do some real work here. ;D
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Offline gerisonic

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2008, 10:16:59 PM »
Quote from: sandman on February 05, 2008, 08:14:34 PM

So how do I change nga the output of a UPS from 60Hz to 400Hz? I cant think of anything inside a UPS to tweak on to change the output frequency.

Usually UPS uses a PWM IC's like karamihan uses TL494, LM3524, etc...
Check nyo lang and datasheet sa PWM IC na ginamit. Look at the oscillator pin sa configuration ng IC then change the RC combination.
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Offline Born2BeWired

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2008, 10:17:20 PM »
@electron

Pag napagana nya may gusto sana akong suggest na target e. Pareho din kaya tayo ng iniisip.. ;D ;D
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Offline sandman

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2008, 12:20:59 PM »
Thanks mga bro at least I could start something up. Will post the schematics soon. Sayang nawala na yung licensed software ko pang layout ng schematics.. Will try it at autocad na lang muna.
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Offline Ikasamoko

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 09:41:29 AM »
Here's a schem for APC BackUPS to start with...

http://rapidshare.com/files/101865215/APC_Back_UPS_250_400_600.zip.html

nice place to start..





Regards...


RBT
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Offline Ikasamoko

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 10:15:31 AM »
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Offline rdpzycho

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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 11:15:15 AM »
portable inverters ang project ko on previous work pero I can not disclose a lot of information here (contract issues)... ;)

maraming UPS quasi-sine wave ang output, 30-120-30 (to reduce odd harmonics)...kung kailangan mo ng pure sine wave 2 ways pwede...

first, Battery Step Up to High Voltage DC then Chop it to make a Sine PWM...2 stages...

second, merong novel designs using a single stage (using bi-directional rectification on the secondary side of the transformer, etc.)...

then another option rather than modifying a UPS, buy one pure sine wave inverter...at the output stage merong 60Hz or 50Hz source...palitan mo na lang ng 400Hz... ;)

then another option buy a VVVF controller for single phase AC motors...yung battery step up na lang ang problem...though nasa 5k pataas ang isang unit... ;D

you may also look at Class D amplifiers...
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Re: 60Hz to 400Hz frequency converter
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 11:15:15 AM »
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