Electronics Lab Philippines

UAV, UAS unmanned systems

Offline highside

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UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« on: July 27, 2015, 03:52:41 PM »
I just want to start a discussion thread unmanned system design. i can give a couple of insight on how to develop one. i have experience in unmanned system from LTA system (lighter than air) to USV and UAV design mostly on avionics, autopilot tuning, wireless comms, video transmitters, antennas, tracking systems, payload. both fix wings and rotary wings. i will share a couple of my designs and might give you an idea how to build one. i don't know where aerospace industry in Philippines stand right now. mostly this systems are operated by the military.

this one of our fix wing system. endurance is 12 to 16hrs depending on payload. daylight and thermal camera. 100L tank. 350cc engine direct injection.effective range 50 to 100Km.



the helicopter is the one i designed from scratch. 300cc engine. 3.2meter rotor diameter.80L fuel. endurance 6hrs. but this is a prototype not in production yet. but 1st flight has already been conducted.

solid works model /CATIA


actual size and model.



i will add later the basics of development in autopilot particularly fix wings. if you have questions feel free to ask.  ;) ;)

Offline danny

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 04:00:04 PM »
thanks for sharing
nice  ;)

hoping you have some clearance to discuss that here

subscribing
interesado ako
kahit nde malalim ang background ko dito :)

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 04:05:13 PM »
i just could not discuss who are the clients. and i could not post any pictures on the internals of the aircraft. meron mga internals na di pwede sabihin and payload specifications. i can discuss basics and fundamentals. i could not discuss the comms used lalo na yung my ITAR restrictions. i could not discuss current autopilot specification and operations. advance algorithms. tracking systems which are operational.

Offline danny

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 04:12:56 PM »
fair enough  :)
I completely understand that part  :D
but its kinda difficult to develop one
without all the infos needed.  ;D

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 04:37:39 PM »
meron mga shortcuts kung sabihin wla masyado technical background. sa mga hobbyist trial and error mostly naga trial and error din kami pero fine tuning lang. iba kasi ang real world scenario.

autopilot development Requirement:

Softwares:
 MATLAB/Simulink/flow state optional but beneficial -> industry standard ang MatLab lahat ng RnD. Control law and simulation lahat ginagawa namin sa  simulink. dapat yung developer verse sa matlab environment. state flow gamit siya sa Navigation algorithms kasi dapat isa lang ang state ng aircraft in any given time. so madali manage ang states sa UI ng state flow tapos pwede link sa simulink for simulation.

Xplane -  aircraft design and simulation coupled with matlab. flight gear is also a good option. pang test ng control laws bago actual testing. but we prefer matlab in early design process pang finishing touches nlang ang xplane or flight gear. Xplane is already considered as industry standard.

aircraft Design:  Matlab, FEA(Finite element analysis) ANSYS(Fluent) fluid dynamics para sa aerodyamics ng frame. CATIA for solid model ng aircraft industry standard, pwede rin XFlow, Patran, NAStran kung ano prefered ng developer.

Programming language: any depende sa delveloper kung saan nya gusto i port. we use C/C++, FPGA, Real Time Operating System(wind river kung ma afford). Ground control station. .NET or Java.

Mathematics: Transfer functions, control system theory, Matrix math, Rotational Matrix (napaka importante). linear algebra, trigo. etc. Types of digital filters.kalman filter, extended-kalman filters, CO-filters. di na pwede yung mga averaging. kinematics and dynamics.

Hardware: Differential pressure sensor, static pressure sensor, Gyro, accel, compass, GPS, Laser Ranger Finder(optional),most of the time we used FPGA coupled with ARM Cortex. but pwede na ARM cortex M4. yung my floating point.

this is the basic model of the simulation in matlab.



and this is how it looks like in simulation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3AIRV3n7hU

Offline glutnix_neo

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »
subscribing, interesting itong topic sir. interest ko nayon cruise missiles   ;D ;D ;D
Peace Again, Amen!!!

Offline glutnix_neo

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 05:21:43 PM »
may tanong pala ako kay sir, sa mga sensors anong ma klaseng sensors po ang gamit nyo?

I'm designing multirotors po so familiar ako sa sensors nila, what I want to know eh ano pong kalibre ng sensor ang gamit n military grade.
Peace Again, Amen!!!

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 05:28:07 PM »
subscribing, interesting itong topic sir. interest ko nayon cruise missiles   ;D ;D ;D

hi, cruise missiles are bit complicated. i did look sa isang missile, designed for uav. sorry i could not disclose any names sa missile. all i can say its 15kg without the arming system. missile design is more on aeronautics. you have to deal with sub-sonic to trans-sonic or above. compressible air etc. and you have to follow certain standards and criteria sa development ng mga ganintong bagay. learning curve is very steep to be honest.

 i don't find it practical to dwell so much in ballistics especially sa pinas. kung my chance ka mag handle its ok, integration is tough 1 year at least. this is just integration nothing to do with design.

Offline insomartin

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 05:29:45 PM »
may tanong pala ako kay sir, sa mga sensors anong ma klaseng sensors po ang gamit nyo?

I'm designing multirotors po so familiar ako sa sensors nila, what I want to know eh ano pong kalibre ng sensor ang gamit n military grade.

afaik di gumagamit nang gps ang eroplano. (kahit meron on board) bale inertial guidance (gyro, compass and accelerometer) lang. then may bias line compensation sa gps. :D then again wala naman talaga akong alam.

sana may pictures :D

Offline insomartin

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 05:31:29 PM »

Hardware: Differential pressure sensor, static pressure sensor, Gyro, accel, compass, GPS, Laser Ranger Finder(optional),most of the time we used FPGA coupled with ARM Cortex. but pwede na ARM cortex M4. yung my floating point.



Actel? altera? xilinx?

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 05:37:38 PM »
may tanong pala ako kay sir, sa mga sensors anong ma klaseng sensors po ang gamit nyo?

I'm designing multirotors po so familiar ako sa sensors nila, what I want to know eh ano pong kalibre ng sensor ang gamit n military grade.


they don't use COTS sensors. yung na bibili mo sa digi key or any electronics shops.  take for example gyro and drift angle ng sensor is 0.01 deg/hr and higher operating temperature. meron iba mas lower pa yung drift angle. one of our sensor cost $4k to 8k each and its not MEMS tech. isang sensor pa lang yan.

temperature plays a huge part lalo na sa drift angle so lagi binabantayan sa data sheet mga ganintong parameters. usually its the selling point of a sensors very low drift angles. and di mo rin mabibili basta basta kasi all of them are ITAR controlled or government controlled. kahit my pera ka isang damak mak na NDA pipirmahan mo at 50 50 kung bebentahan ka.

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 05:39:37 PM »

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 05:48:51 PM »
afaik di gumagamit nang gps ang eroplano. (kahit meron on board) bale inertial guidance (gyro, compass and accelerometer) lang. then may bias line compensation sa gps. :D then again wala naman talaga akong alam.

sana may pictures :D



this is the biggest challenge sa UAV industry pano makakabalik ang eroplano pag nawala ang gps. majority di maka balik or mali ang binalikan. yung "Dead Reckoning" if you come up with an algorithm for a very effective "Dead Reckoning" na COTS sensors gamit mo wlang RTK ha. bibilin yang research mo for a very high price. yung accurate tlga. so far sa amin puro mali ang binalikan or di na maka balik. usually we terminate the flight and crash the aircraft. navigating the aircraft based lang sa interial sensors very challenging dahil sa drift. di ka maka plot ng maayos in 2D space wag mo na sali yung 3D space. one major factor is the Wind Frame. pano ma measure accurately ang wind speed at wind direction. kasi yung Course angle is completely different sa compass reading which is your magnetic north.

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 05:53:48 PM »
meron time na bumili ako ng isang Gyro at acceleronometer. medyo maganda ang drift angle mababa na para sa application. i have to sign an NDA and di ko pwede i ko dapat dalhin ang sensor sa IRAN, IRAQ, AFGA, at isang african country ata yun. and 1 to 2 months waiting period para sa approval. ganon ka hirap ngyn bumili ng magagandang sensor. kaya best option punta ng china at hanap ng equivalent.

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2015, 05:54:50 PM »
real time gps po ba ang flight ng isang uav? wala po bang pre-programmed based on satcomm data. i mean pre-programmed na po siya saan siya pupunta at saan siya babalik. is drift one big problem?

airline pilots has this automode pilot.

Offline glutnix_neo

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2015, 05:55:31 PM »

they don't use COTS sensors. yung na bibili mo sa digi key or any electronics shops.  take for example gyro and drift angle ng sensor is 0.01 deg/hr and higher operating temperature. meron iba mas lower pa yung drift angle. one of our sensor cost $4k to 8k each and its not MEMS tech. isang sensor pa lang yan.

temperature plays a huge part lalo na sa drift angle so lagi binabantayan sa data sheet mga ganintong parameters. usually its the selling point of a sensors very low drift angles. and di mo rin mabibili basta basta kasi all of them are ITAR controlled or government controlled. kahit my pera ka isang damak mak na NDA pipirmahan mo at 50 50 kung bebentahan ka.


maraming salamat po, that's what I want to know, kung gumagamit ng MEMS yung military grade, so yung size nya is siguro kasing laki ng bola ng baseball?
Peace Again, Amen!!!

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2015, 06:01:42 PM »

maraming salamat po, that's what I want to know, kung gumagamit ng MEMS yung military grade, so yung size nya is siguro kasing laki ng bola ng baseball?

parang 6 to 8 inches ang haba. mga 2 inches ang lapad at taas. tapos aluminum ang casing na my heat sink.  24vdc ang input. CAN ang com port. pero alam ko meron pang mas maganda e. pero di ko na alam ano. yan lang nakita ko so far.

Offline highside

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2015, 06:24:50 PM »
real time gps po ba ang flight ng isang uav? wala po bang pre-programmed based on satcomm data. i mean pre-programmed na po siya saan siya pupunta at saan siya babalik. is drift one big problem?

airline pilots has this automode pilot.

latency namin sa communication is 75hz to 128hz. 75hz is just right 128hz medyo overkill na. 50hz is also fine. wag ka bumaba ng 20hz. garbage na ang artifical horizon mo nyan. waypoints are pre planned dahil mag file kami sa ATC ng flight plan prior sa mission flight kahit meron kaming equip na transponder pero MODE C lang na transponder its not MODE S. all airspace regulation applies pag above 3000ft na alititude mo. pwede kami mag change na waypoints on the fly.

sad to say SAT-COM is not allowed sa private and commercial use. Military lang pwede gumamit ng SAT-COM and need nila i declare ang UAV nila meron kayong satcom or else kulung ka. big players lang usually naka SAT-COM gaya ng lockheed or general Atomics. boing etc. IAI heron di ko alam kung naka sat-com na rin cla.

so mga mga nag papalano na mag SAT-COM na UAV gaya na IRIDIUM. BAWAL Yan!! follow lang yung rules at regulations.

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2015, 08:44:17 PM »
paano kami mag diy ng uav's sir? ano ang gagamitin namin kahit 20km man lang.

go-pro cam + vlf xmtr?

papaano po yong video live streaming sa vlf sir? parang power line carrier (plc) po ba yan?

Offline congressman

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Re: UAV, UAS unmanned systems
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 10:16:19 PM »
subscribing, interesting itong topic sir. interest ko nayon cruise missiles   ;D ;D ;D
sidewinder may schematic ako. yung old at latest.  ;D
Peace!